Nobody except immature adults who think a conflict where innocent people have been killed could see a debate on it as something where speakers get "beaten." Grow up and treat this issue with the respect and seriousness it warrants.
The original debate is included in the video. However, it’s not about winning and losing. It’s about educating the public on all the misconceptions we’ve heard for decades.
I agree and thank you 🙏 Highlighting the peace-makers on either side of the issue is exactly what we need more of. Thank you for emphasizing this, as it so often gets lost in the heat.
Wow Noah, you are truly a rare human indeed. Thank you for this. Thank you. I have always thought your comments, even when we disagree, were respectful and rational. I continue to believe that.
Thank you for being able to transcend the heat of this issue. It's hard for all of us, including me. Some people take this issue as an excuse to treat others with disrespect that they would likely never do in person and I can't tell you how disappointing and difficult it is to face. Jake and I try really hard to push back on this behavior and redirect our disagreements to the issue itself and I know you value that as I've seen you do that yourself. I wish more people could understand that we may disagree how to achieve it, but most of us genuinely want to see peace and safety for all innocent people. Please send me a DM on Instagram if you'd like, I'd like to talk to you more personally.
Your comment is the epitome of what I want for The Black Sheep. Thank you for doing the incredibly rare thing of being willing to see us charitably.
Funny, you'd have no problem if the ideology being pointed out was "leftist" instead of "zionist", but just like leftists do, you take the naming of your own ideology as an insult.
Don't insult people like the commentator I was responding to did and people won't be inclined to highlight how your ideology constantly correlates with aggressive behavior.
As I go over in the video, the Strait of Tiran is a naval passage between Egypt and Saudi Arabia. The closure was intended to be part of an economic boycott. The first shots were fired unambiguously by Israel. Yes, Israel declared the Strait’s closure an act of war. I could declare your comment an act of war if I wanted to. Declaring something doesn’t make it so.
Everyone already understands that Israel and Hamas were in a state of war before October 7. Hence people say there was a “ceasefire” on October 6. Just like with Russia and Ukraine.
I don’t think the side that fires the first shot is necessarily wrong. Or necessarily right.
It doesn’t load for me. And this is one guy. I don’t know who he is or anything else. Dersh is also from Harvard law and agrees with me.
I don’t know what implications you would mean. Hamas and Israel were already in a state of war before October 7, yes. There was a ceasefire but still a state of war, yes. October 7 was a genocidal terroristic war crime. Russia and Ukraine were already in a state of war before February 22. It’s not like they signed a peace treaty before February 22.
Because it’s not part of the question of who started the Six Day war and thus wasn’t what came up in the debate. You’re moving the goal posts to try to win some other debate from the one that was being had. If you want to say Jordan and Syria shouldn’t have been allied with Egypt, fine, make that argument. It’s not a question I’ve yet considered deeply. But I’m not a liar and I’m not a propagandist, you’re just experiencing cognitive dissonance and lashing out aggressively because of it. You might benefit from this other article of mine: https://www.wetheblacksheep.com/p/what-brings-you-meaning-in-life-is
Read it again. There wasn’t an apologia in there. WW1 started with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and the Six Day War started with Israel attacking Egypt. That’s just the way it is, and you can have whatever thoughts about what happened in each war after that, but you can’t talk those facts away. If that truth makes you unable to control your anger, go express it somewhere else.
You're deranged. Make factual, respectful arguments or I will block you.
Notice how you're the one who needs to invent a weird conspiracy about how anyone who disagrees with you is some malicious propagandist. If you yourself were driven by facts instead of tribal derangement, you would stick to facts.
Please refrain from commenting on content if you can't be truthful or rational. The Black Sheep has never been about taking no position on anything. And what could be more black sheep than being rightwing and opposing Zionism?
Please stop with the emotionally manipulative language: no one "hates Israel", such a concept is childish. This has nothing to do with hating an entire country, I don't even know what that entails. We're criticizing a specific ideology that harms both Israelis and Palestinians by causing unnecessary conflict.
I'm tired of such immaturity being brought to this issue. Zionism is an ideology, not a race. Criticizing Zionism is like criticizing any other form of identity politics. The fact that you take issue with the settlements and Netanyahu is largely because of the Revisionist Zionist ideology he pursues that seeks to continually maximize Israel's territory.
Also, it's absurd that you would accuse us of being "condescending and smug", when we focus on the facts and discuss everything in a tempered manner. This just confirms how emotionally driven you are in your response. If there's ANY criticism that can't be made of us, it's that we don't seek to elevate this conversation by keeping it focused on logical arguments, facts, and humanizing all the innocent people involved.
The incoherence of your position is well represented by slapping two slogans on the ending while demonizing us for discussing just exactly what's required to have a free Palestine AND Israel.
Oh, I wasn t aware of the debate. I need to watch it. I assume the video is posted on your page. If not, please let me know where.
You can watch it through the response video! We play the whole thing throughout our commentary. Enjoy and thanks for checking it out!
Thanks for making this issue clear.
Just watch the original debate. Klein and BrieBrieJoy got beaten badly.
Nobody except immature adults who think a conflict where innocent people have been killed could see a debate on it as something where speakers get "beaten." Grow up and treat this issue with the respect and seriousness it warrants.
The original debate is included in the video. However, it’s not about winning and losing. It’s about educating the public on all the misconceptions we’ve heard for decades.
Thank you, I appreciate how mature and educated your response is!
Thank you :)
I agree and thank you 🙏 Highlighting the peace-makers on either side of the issue is exactly what we need more of. Thank you for emphasizing this, as it so often gets lost in the heat.
Wow, thank you Noah. This is a truly rare reversal and I appreciate it very much very. Glad to have you as a viewer :)
Wow Noah, you are truly a rare human indeed. Thank you for this. Thank you. I have always thought your comments, even when we disagree, were respectful and rational. I continue to believe that.
Thank you for being able to transcend the heat of this issue. It's hard for all of us, including me. Some people take this issue as an excuse to treat others with disrespect that they would likely never do in person and I can't tell you how disappointing and difficult it is to face. Jake and I try really hard to push back on this behavior and redirect our disagreements to the issue itself and I know you value that as I've seen you do that yourself. I wish more people could understand that we may disagree how to achieve it, but most of us genuinely want to see peace and safety for all innocent people. Please send me a DM on Instagram if you'd like, I'd like to talk to you more personally.
Your comment is the epitome of what I want for The Black Sheep. Thank you for doing the incredibly rare thing of being willing to see us charitably.
Please just stop. Let a good interaction between two people happen. This isn't helpful.
Funny, you'd have no problem if the ideology being pointed out was "leftist" instead of "zionist", but just like leftists do, you take the naming of your own ideology as an insult.
Don't insult people like the commentator I was responding to did and people won't be inclined to highlight how your ideology constantly correlates with aggressive behavior.
As I go over in the video, the Strait of Tiran is a naval passage between Egypt and Saudi Arabia. The closure was intended to be part of an economic boycott. The first shots were fired unambiguously by Israel. Yes, Israel declared the Strait’s closure an act of war. I could declare your comment an act of war if I wanted to. Declaring something doesn’t make it so.
The difference is that Doctors Without Borders and Britannia encyclopedia don’t define Internet comments to be acts of war.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/blockade-warfare
Here’s legal analysis from the time from a Harvard University lawyer specializing in international law: https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1967/06/11/issue.html
His take away is that the legal case for Egypt’s right to the blockade was stronger than Israel’s legal case to the contrary.
As an aside, I’d keep in mind the implications calling a blockade casus belli for war has for Gaza prior to October 7th.
Everyone already understands that Israel and Hamas were in a state of war before October 7. Hence people say there was a “ceasefire” on October 6. Just like with Russia and Ukraine.
I don’t think the side that fires the first shot is necessarily wrong. Or necessarily right.
It doesn’t load for me. And this is one guy. I don’t know who he is or anything else. Dersh is also from Harvard law and agrees with me.
I don’t know what implications you would mean. Hamas and Israel were already in a state of war before October 7, yes. There was a ceasefire but still a state of war, yes. October 7 was a genocidal terroristic war crime. Russia and Ukraine were already in a state of war before February 22. It’s not like they signed a peace treaty before February 22.
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/blockade/
“A blockade is an act of war”
Because it’s not part of the question of who started the Six Day war and thus wasn’t what came up in the debate. You’re moving the goal posts to try to win some other debate from the one that was being had. If you want to say Jordan and Syria shouldn’t have been allied with Egypt, fine, make that argument. It’s not a question I’ve yet considered deeply. But I’m not a liar and I’m not a propagandist, you’re just experiencing cognitive dissonance and lashing out aggressively because of it. You might benefit from this other article of mine: https://www.wetheblacksheep.com/p/what-brings-you-meaning-in-life-is
Read it again. There wasn’t an apologia in there. WW1 started with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and the Six Day War started with Israel attacking Egypt. That’s just the way it is, and you can have whatever thoughts about what happened in each war after that, but you can’t talk those facts away. If that truth makes you unable to control your anger, go express it somewhere else.
You're blocked. Another Zionist that can't restrain themselves from insulting anyone who questions them.
You're deranged. Make factual, respectful arguments or I will block you.
Notice how you're the one who needs to invent a weird conspiracy about how anyone who disagrees with you is some malicious propagandist. If you yourself were driven by facts instead of tribal derangement, you would stick to facts.
Please refrain from commenting on content if you can't be truthful or rational. The Black Sheep has never been about taking no position on anything. And what could be more black sheep than being rightwing and opposing Zionism?
Please stop with the emotionally manipulative language: no one "hates Israel", such a concept is childish. This has nothing to do with hating an entire country, I don't even know what that entails. We're criticizing a specific ideology that harms both Israelis and Palestinians by causing unnecessary conflict.
I'm tired of such immaturity being brought to this issue. Zionism is an ideology, not a race. Criticizing Zionism is like criticizing any other form of identity politics. The fact that you take issue with the settlements and Netanyahu is largely because of the Revisionist Zionist ideology he pursues that seeks to continually maximize Israel's territory.
Also, it's absurd that you would accuse us of being "condescending and smug", when we focus on the facts and discuss everything in a tempered manner. This just confirms how emotionally driven you are in your response. If there's ANY criticism that can't be made of us, it's that we don't seek to elevate this conversation by keeping it focused on logical arguments, facts, and humanizing all the innocent people involved.
The incoherence of your position is well represented by slapping two slogans on the ending while demonizing us for discussing just exactly what's required to have a free Palestine AND Israel.